watching the color change

[Tarheel]

I wrote this:
1. I stumbled upon a great cafe while walking around the city.

That's perfect.

 

[Tarheel]

2. I stumbled upon a great cafe WHILE I WAS walking around the city.

With my changes, it's perfect.

 

[jutfrank]

For example:
I lay in bed looking at the ceiling.
I lay back drinking coffee.

Do I need a comma? Is it optional?

Okay, I see what you mean. No, you can't use a comma and no it isn't optional because if you use one you change the meaning.

I wrote this:
1. I stumbled upon a great cafe while walking around the city.

Can I say these?:
2. I stumbled upon a great cafe walking around the city.
3. I stumbled upon a great cafe, walking around the city.

I feel that 2 and 3 are weird, but I don't find I lay in bed looking at the ceiling weird.

Your feeling is quite right. Sentence 1 is the best and clearest way to show the simultaneity that you want to express because it has the conjunction 'while'. I don't think you want to express the causal relation that I mentioned earlier in the thread so sentence 2 is out. Sentence 3 is no good because the clauses are the wrong way round. To show the kind of simultaneity that you want to express without using 'while', you should put the phrase that sets the context first, and then use a comma, like this:

Walking around the city, I stumbled upon a great cafe.

 

[Maybo]

Okay, I see what you mean. No, you can't use a comma and no it isn't optional because if you use one you change the meaning.

What would the meaning change? If I add a comma before "looking" and "drinking", will the second part of the sentence become extra information like you said in #17?

Are "lie" and "stand" are some special words that can be written this way "lie/stand+verbing"? If so, what are this kind of verbs?

 

[jutfrank]

What would the meaning change? If I add a comma before "looking" and "drinking", will the second part of the sentence become extra information like you said in #17?

Yes.

Are "lie" and "stand" are some special words that can be written this way "lie/stand+verbing"? If so, what are this kind of verbs?

These are special in that they are state-like verbs that help to express location. They combine very well with -ing phrases that express a cotemporaneous action:

She just lay there thinking of England.
Don't stand there staring at me.
The cat sat on the mat watching the rat.

verb
location
action

Note that there is no comma in this kind of structure. The three elements all work together so you don't want to split them up with a pause.

 

[Maybo]

Yes.



These are special in that they are state-like verbs that help to express location. They combine very well with -ing phrases that express a cotemporaneous action:

She just lay there thinking of England.
Don't stand there staring at me.
The cat sat on the mat watching the rat.

verb
location
action

Note that there is no comma in this kind of structure. The three elements all work together so you don't want to split them up with a pause.

I'm watching The Big Bang Theory. Leonard got mad at his roommate, Sheldon, so he decided to go to live with his girlfriend, Penny.

Penny didn't like the idea so she said to Leonard:
My point is, as much as I want to live with you, I can't do it knowing how much Sheldon needs you.

Is the above sentence using state-like verb structure? Since it is subtitle, I don't know whether there is a comma before "knowing".

 

[Tarheel]

I'm watching The Big Bang Theory. Leonard got mad at his roommate, Sheldon, so he decided to go to live with his girlfriend, Penny.

Penny didn't like the idea so she said to Leonard:
My point is, as much as I want to live with you, I can't do it knowing how much Sheldon needs you.

DOES the above sentence USE state-like verb structure? Since it is SUBTLE, I don't know whether there is a comma before "knowing".

No. I'm guessing that she didn't say it that way. (In my humble opinion that's all you need to know.)

 

[Maybo]

No. I'm guessing that she didn't say it that way. (In my humble opinion that's all you need to know.)

What do you mean by not saying it that way? It is "subtitle" . She said it and I copied the subtitle.

 

[Tarheel]

What do you mean by not saying it that way? It is "subtitle" . She said it and I copied the subtitle.

Did she pause while speaking? If so, insert a comma there.

The part about the subtitle was unclear. (Should there be a comma in the subtitle? (Probably not.).)

 

[5jj]

Can we get back to Maybo's question, please?

I'm watching The Big Bang Theory. Leonard got mad at his roommate, Sheldon, so he decided to go to live with his girlfriend, Penny.

Penny didn't like the idea so she said to Leonard:
My point is, as much as I want to live with you, I can't do it knowing how much Sheldon needs you.

Is the above sentence using state-like verb structure? Since it is subtitle, I don't know whether there is a comma before "knowing".

 

[Maybo]

Did she pause while speaking? If so, insert a comma there.

The part about the subtitle was unclear. (Should there be a comma in the subtitle? (Probably not.).)

No. There is no comma before "knowing" in the subtitle.

I recorded that line:

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

Vocaroo is a quick and easy way to share voice messages over the interwebs.

voca.ro

She spoke very fast.

 

[jutfrank]

Is the above sentence using state-like verb structure? Since it is subtitle, I don't know whether there is a comma before "knowing".

No comma there, no. The verb knowing doesn't express location like the previous examples but the whole phrase knowing how much Sheldon needs you is closely tied in meaning to I can't do it, which is why there's no pause/comma. Penny is saying that the only condition that she can't do it is one where she knows how much Sheldon needs him.

I know this is difficult to understand so here's a simple rule for you to follow for now: If the -ing phrase feels like additional information, then it can be separated with a comma. If not, it can't. In fact, it doesn't really matter whether the phrase is an -ing phrase—this is the case with all adverbials. Look:

a) I can't drive with my eyes closed.
b) I can't drive, with my eyes closed.

Think about this pair. Which one is correct? Why? Is the speaker saying she can't drive? What's the logical connection between I can't drive and with my eyes closed?

 

[Maybo]

a) I can't drive with my eyes closed.

This means I can’t drive because my eyes are closed.

b) I can't drive, with my eyes closed.

This means I can’t drive for some reason and at the same time my eyes are closed. We don’t know why I can’t drive.

Have I got that right?

 

[jutfrank]

This means I can’t drive because my eyes are closed.

No, it means that I can't drive when or if my eyes are closed. My being able to drive is conditional upon my eyes being open. The point I was trying to make is that the meaning is I can drive, but only as long as my eyes are open.

This means I can’t drive for some reason and at the same time my eyes are closed. We don’t know why I can’t drive.

Have I got that right?

The version with the comma doesn't make sense, but the fact that there's a comma after I can't drive seems to suggests that I can't drive.

Do you see?

 

[Maybo]

I'm reading a book called We Used to Live Here by Marcus Kliewer.

Here's a line from the book:
Winter was out there, lurking around in the shadows, but the first snow had yet to fall.

I feel like the comma before "lurking" is not needed. Is that needed or the writer trying to make "lurking around in the shadows" an additional information?

 

[emsr2d2]

The two commas are required to surround (and set apart) the additional information that "winter was lurking in the shadows". Without the part between commas, we still have a perfectly grammatical sentence:
Winter was out there but the first snow had yet to fall.

 

[Maybo]

The two commas are required to surround (and set apart) the additional information that "winter was lurking in the shadows". Without the part between commas, we still have a perfectly grammatical sentence:
Winter was out there but the first snow had yet to fall.

Can I say “Winter was out there lurking around in the shadows”?

 

[Tarheel]

Yes, of course you can say that. It seems to suggest that winter is sneaking around -- perhaps with the intent to rob somebody. Weird, but possible.

 

[Tarheel]

I'm reading a book called We Used to Live Here by Marcus Kliewer.

Here's a line from the book:
Winter was out there, lurking around in the shadows, but the first snow had yet to fall.

I feel like the comma before "lurking" is not needed. Is that needed or the writer trying to make "lurking around in the shadows" an additional information?

I'm not sure what you think "trying" means.

I probably wouldn't use the comma, but it doesn't bother me.

The writer is, apparently, comparing winter to a person -- a sneaky one.

I don't know that I would call it additional information. (No "a".) The writer is simply trying to create a mood.

If you're going to micro-analyze everything it will take you a very long time to read a book.

 

[Maybo]

If you're going to micro-analyze everything it will take you a very long time to read a book.

Commas are very important. Since the sample sentences I put here are quite simple, it’s easy for readers to understand the general idea. However, when it comes to more complex sentences, I might have difficulty understanding them. I keep asking these questions is because I want to help myself read complex writing more easily in the future. If I were in an exam, I would have no one to ask for help.