you guys

[GoesStation]

Is there just one you with a singular and plural uses, or are there two yous?

There are three. It's also an object pronoun.

I think you're making too much of this. Just as "you" and "it" serve happily as both subject and object pronouns, "you" is both singular and plural. The same thing applies to the second-person singular formal subject pronoun in some Romance languages. In German, sie/Sie can mean she, they, or you (formal). It's better to accept this as the way things are than to go in circles trying to explain it.

 

[Phaedrus]

The emergence of you all, y'all, all of you, and you guys suggests that you is perceived by native speakers as intrinsically singular, not plural.

I would argue that all of you (two of you, three of you, etc.) suggests the opposite, that you is not perceived by native speakers as intrinsically singular.

First, when people use all (of) y'all (sometimes we even hear the possessive all y'all's!), the y'all is quite unnecessary to indicate plurality.

(Notice that those who use all (of) y'all do not use two (of) y'all, etc., as well.)

Second, we also have expressions like all of us and all of them, but those expressions obviously do not suggest that us and them are intrinsically singular.

 

[Glizdka]

I would argue that all of you (two of you, three of you, etc.) suggests the opposite, that you is not perceived by native speakers as intrinsically singular.

First, when people use all (of) y'all (sometimes we even hear the possessive all y'all's!), the y'all is quite unnecessary to indicate plurality.

(Notice that those who use all (of) y'all do not use two (of) y'all, etc., as well.)

Second, we also have expressions like all of us and all of them, but those expressions obviously do not suggest that us and them are intrinsically singular.

Great point. It makes a lot of sense. Would that make you more like a group not-mes, regardless of how many not-mes there are? A sort of collective category of all that is not me? If I've understood it correctly, like how Charlie Bernstein described it.

You can be either singular and plural. There's me, and there's everyone else: you.

"All ravens are black."
"All of you have made great points in this thread."

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There are three. It's also an object pronoun.

I think you're making too much of this. Just as "you" and "it" serve happily as both subject and object pronouns, "you" is both singular and plural. The same thing applies to the second-person singular formal subject pronoun in some Romance languages. In German, sie/Sie can mean she, they, or you (formal). It's better to accept this as the way things are than to go in circles trying to explain it.

I think you're right, GoesStation. I tend to go in circles, investing way too much effort into trying to analyze/understand/explain something that doesn't need it. However, I think that's one of the reasons—if not the reason—I've come this far.

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Side questions:

1) I've been experimenting with em dashes. Have I used them correctly throughout the thread?

2) Is "either...and..." correct? I know "either...or...", but I'm a bit surprised you've used "either...and..." in your post, Charlie.

 

[GoesStation]

2) Is "either...and..." correct? I know "either...or...", but I'm a bit surprised you've used "either...and..." in your post, Charlie.

It's an error.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

It's an error.

Guilty.