[Grammar] 【long since】 【that】

[dodonaomik]

Whoeve begins at this point, like my readers, to reflect and pursue his train of thought will not soon come to the end of it____reason enough for me to come to an end, assuming it has long since been abundantly clear what my aim is, what the aim of that dangerous slogan is that is inscribed at the head of my last book. __________ <<Beyond Good and Evil>>


:?:long since: I can not understand long since. Does long since mean "long time since"?
that: I feel very puzzled. Is that only a pronoun?(as the following: That is a plum tree I planted.)
Or does that refer to " that dangerous slogan "?



Sincere thanks!

 

[probus]

"Long since" is not used in mainstream English. It belongs to Indian English. In that dialect it means "a long time ago."

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

I find "long since" perfectly normal, if a little old fashioned, and I certainly don't speak Indian English.

 

[Matthew Wai]

... it has long since been abundantly clear ...

May I take it to mean "it has been abundantly clear for a long time"?

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

You may indeed.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Or does that refer to " that dangerous slogan "?

I agree that "that" is a relative pronoun referring to "that dangerous slogan".

Not a teacher.

 

[emsr2d2]

"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

 

[SoothingDave]

"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

Same in AmE.

 

[Raymott]

Nevertheless, I think the meaning here is "long since a specific stated time", ie. since the dangerous slogan was published in his last book.
The use of "long since" without a reference time in the past sounds a little odd to me. I'm not convinced that there is no past time implicit in the 'cake shop' example. It could mean "since the time we are reflecting about".

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

I don't think of long since as meaning since. I see it more as meaning "ago" although they aren't directly interchangeable. That would make the reference time now, not a point in the past.

 

[emsr2d2]

"That's long since gone" = "It's a long time since that went" (for me). So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down.

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

This example taken from oxforddictionaries.com,

"Practice has long since taken its leave of policy, and speaks to it about once a year, on a bad line."

can be rewritten, "Practice took its leave of policy a long time ago, and speaks..."

 

[Matthew Wai]

I am not a teacher.

The example below is quoted from http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/since

"I've long since forgiven her for what she did."

Perhaps it can be rewritten as "A long time ago I forgave her for what she had done."

 

[dodonaomik]

"Long since" is used regularly in BrE.

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

Does the part marked pink mean "Oh, that was long since gone"?

If so(In my eye, 's=was ), I feel it's very good that the reference time is now as Roman said.

Is there one reason to prove the Roman's opinion wrong?

I feel there's no such reason.

 

[dodonaomik]

"That's long since gone" = "It's a long time since that went" (for me). So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down.

Yes, I agree with you, but at the same time I think Roman's opinion is right too.
In fact, are you both right? I think you are both right.

 

[Matthew Wai]

"Oh, that was long since gone"

The perfect tense is often used in connection with "since", so I think it should be "has".

Not a teacher.

 

[dodonaomik]

The perfect tense is often used in connection with "since", so I think it should be "has".

Not a teacher.

If your opinion is right, I can't understand emsr2d2's opinion________"So for me, the reference time in the past is the day the shop closed down."




If my opinion's right, I think that not only emsr2d2's but also Roman's opinion is right. In other words, I can understand both emsr2d2's
and Roman's opinion. （"Oh, that was long since gone"... ... that=a period of time, in my eye)

 

[Matthew Wai]

- What happened to that cake shop that used to be next to the bank?
- Oh, that's long since gone.

That=that cake shop that used to be next to the bank, in my eyes.
That cake shop has long since gone.

Not a teacher.

 

[Raymott]

I've changed my opinion since my first post. "Long since" doesn't need a reference point if it means "a long time ago". Roman and emsr2d2 are both right. "A long time ago" obviously has 'now' as a reference point. But I'd say that "long since" is idiomatic. "Since" is unusual in this construction because it doesn't have a reference point in the past (except for "a long time ago").

 

[dodonaomik]

That=that cake shop that used to be next to the bank, in my eyes.
That cake shop has long since gone.

Not a teacher.

That cake shop has long=The cake shop hasn't existed for a long time?


Otherwise how to understand the oblique part?