1.welcome having to change

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notletrest

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Can we say like this: After so many years with the same firm I did not welcome having to change my job, but it turned out for the best in the end.Thank you for instrutions!
 

SoothingDave

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Not a teacher.

Yes, that's perfectly fine.
 

tedtmc

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Can we say like this: After so many years with the same firm I did not welcome having to change my job, but it turned out for the best in the end.Thank you for instrutions!

I don't see any problem with it.
 

notletrest

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I don't see any problem with it.
Let's analyse it,here "welcome" is a v.t.,"having to change" is its d.o.According to ALD,welcome cannot be followed by a gerund no matter what aspect it is. Thank for your notice.
 

tedtmc

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Let's analyse it,here "welcome" is a v.t.,"having to change" is its d.o.According to ALD,welcome cannot be followed by a gerund no matter what aspect it is. Thank for your notice.

What is d.o. and ALD?
You can welcome anything (noun or gerund).
 

Tdol

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I agree with Ted- it's fine.
 

notletrest

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What is d.o. and ALD?
You can welcome anything (noun or gerund).
====================================
d.o.=direct object
ALD=The Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English
According to you ,any v.t. can be followed by a noun or a gerund ,can't it?For example , we can say I chose the book.But we can't say I chose doing the job. What do think of it?
Maybe you mean welcome can be followed by a noun or a gerund.Can you show an example? Glad to hear you.
 

tedtmc

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we can't say' I chose doing the job'.

Yes, you can.
You can either write:
I chose to do the job. or
I chose doing the job.
 

TheParser

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====================================
d.o.=direct object
ALD=The Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English
According to you ,any v.t. can be followed by a noun or a gerund ,can't it?For example , we can say I chose the book.But we can't say I chose doing the job. What do think of it?
Maybe you mean welcome can be followed by a noun or a gerund.Can you show an example? Glad to hear you.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

(1) Yes, Notletrest, it does seem that you are correct

about "choose."

(a) According to The Grammar Book by Mesdames Celce-Murcia and

Larsen-Freeman, only the infinitive follows "choose."

(2) Now I have to find an expert who says that the gerund is

fine after "welcome," but so far I have not succeeded. Hopefully,

someone else will.

***** Thank you *****:)
 

TheParser

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====================================
d.o.=direct object
ALD=The Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English
According to you ,any v.t. can be followed by a noun or a gerund ,can't it?For example , we can say I chose the book.But we can't say I chose doing the job. What do think of it?
Maybe you mean welcome can be followed by a noun or a gerund.Can you show an example? Glad to hear you.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) You are an excellent student because you ask really good questions.

(2) I agree with the other posters that the gerund is possible after

"to welcome."

(3) As you know, "welcome" in your sentence means the same as:

look forward to/ accept gladly.

(4) I don't know much about the use of the Web, but I googled and

found some examples that I think most native speakers would say are

absolutely "correct":

Daimler would welcome having Chinese investors.

Many general practitioners [doctors] would welcome having physician assistants.

Some older workers welcome having a job past retirement age.

The owner would probably welcome having the neighbor trim the tree.

Busy readers welcome having a stream of information divided up this way.
[This sentence comes from a book written by a grammar expert.]

Most business managers would probably welcome having a choice of accounting methods.

Might Mother [her name] not welcome having Mother [her name] as her assistant?

I don't welcome having this difference with Chrystal.

(5) Is there any chance that you may have misunderstood what

that book said?

***** Thank you for your question *****:)
 

joham

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Thank you very much,notletrest and all teachers here. I'm so glad I got to know that the verb 'welcome' can be followed by a gerund, which sounds so reasonable but which I didn't know until today. The Oxford Dictionary (ALD) doesn't include the contructions of 'welcome doing sth' and 'welcome sb to do sth' perhaps because they are not used often enough to come into a dictionary. But we Chinese learners of English would often think that those contructions which are not included in dictionaries are all incorrect. That's a big problem for us, especially for myself. That's why I often come here to learn English.
 
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tedtmc

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1) Yes, Notletrest, it does seem that you are correct

about "choose."

(a) According to The Grammar Book by Mesdames Celce-Murcia and

Larsen-Freeman, only the infinitive follows "choose."

Parser
I don't agree with the above statement in bold.
The verb 'choose' can be followed by an infinitive or a noun. If it is a noun, it can also be a gerund.

This is taken from dictionary.com:

choose   /tʃuz/ Show Spelled [chooz] Show IPA verb, chose; cho·sen or ( Obsolete ) chose; choos·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to select from a number of possibilities; pick by preference: She chose Sunday for her departure.


Between an apple and an orange, I would choose an apple. (noun)
Given the choice between going to the cinema and going to the pub, I choose the latter/going to the pub.(gerund)
 
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notletrest

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***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) You are an excellent student because you ask really good questions.

(2) I agree with the other posters that the gerund is possible after

"to welcome."

(3) As you know, "welcome" in your sentence means the same as:

look forward to/ accept gladly.

(4) I don't know much about the use of the Web, but I googled and

found some examples that I think most native speakers would say are

absolutely "correct":

Daimler would welcome having Chinese investors.

Many general practitioners [doctors] would welcome having physician assistants.

Some older workers welcome having a job past retirement age.

The owner would probably welcome having the neighbor trim the tree.

Busy readers welcome having a stream of information divided up this way.
[This sentence comes from a book written by a grammar expert.]

Most business managers would probably welcome having a choice of accounting methods.

Might Mother [her name] not welcome having Mother [her name] as her assistant?

I don't welcome having this difference with Chrystal.

(5) Is there any chance that you may have misunderstood what

that book said?

***** Thank you for your question *****:)

So many good examples that I have to agree with you.Thank you very much for your earnest!
 

tedtmc

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So many good examples that I have to agree with you.Thank you very much for your earnest!

Earnest is an adjective, the noun is earnestness.
Have you read my comment about 'choose'?
 

TheParser

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Parser
I don't agree with the above statement in bold.
The verb 'choose' can be followed by an infinitive or a noun. If it is a noun, it can also be a gerund.

This is taken from dictionary.com:

choose   /tʃuz/ Show Spelled [chooz] Show IPA verb, chose; cho·sen or ( Obsolete ) chose; choos·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to select from a number of possibilities; pick by preference: She chose Sunday for her departure.

Between an apple and an orange, I would choose an apple. (noun)
Given the choice between going to the cinema and going to the pub, I choose the latter/going to the pub.(gerund)

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Tedtmc.

(1) Thank you for your thoughtful note.

(2) I hope that one of the excellent teachers will explain to you why

a gerund after "choose" is "incorrect."

(3) I will TRY my best to share a few thoughts:

(a) Of course, that book that I cited could be wrong.

(b) It could also be a case of different English varieties.

(i) I read in a grammar magazine that "I omitted TO TELL [infinitive] the others" is OK in British English but not in American English.

(c) I googled "verbs followed by gerunds & infinitives." All the lists limited
"choose" to the infinitive.

(d) Maybe the most important point is that you say that a a noun can follow "choose," and that a gerund is a noun, and therefore, a gerund can follow "choose."

(i) How about this idea:

Yes, a gerund is defined as a noun. But that still does not necessarily mean that a gerund can follow "choose." In other words, no language has
consistent rules.

(4) I am NOT trying to change your mind. You must do what you are comfortable with. Quite frankly, your sentence of "I choose going to the pub" does NOT sound horrible. But I, too, am a "rules man," and I shall stick with "I choose to go to the pub" -- because that is what the "experts" tell me is "correct."

(5) Hopefully, another poster can do better in persuading you to at least
reconsider your views.

***** Thank you for your comment *****:)

P. S. I just thought of this:

Yes, a gerund is defined as a noun. But all the books say that it still

maintains its "verbish" qualities.

I like eating broccoli. (The gerund takes an object. A "real" noun cannot

do that.)
 

Jaskin

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hi,
Please note I'm not a teacher nor a native speaker.

Between an apple and an orange, I would choose an apple. (noun)
Given the choice between going to the cinema and going to the pub, I choose the latter/going to the pub.(gerund)

Given the choice between going to the cinema and going to the pub, I choose going to the pub.

It's a very interesting sentence. I just want to notice that that gerund is washed out of its "verbal characteristic". it's been used clearly as a label, a name that can be easily replaced by "the latter". The "going to the pub" is a consequence of previous between +ing.
If I want to say/write that I choose some sort of action I would still say/write: choose to do something

Cheers
 

tedtmc

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Quite frankly, your sentence of "I choose going to the pub" does NOT sound horrible. But I, too, am a "rules man," and I shall stick with "I choose to go to the pub" -- because that is what the "experts" tell me is "correct.

Parser
Is that a polite way of saying something is not correct? :-D

Put it this way, I would normally prefer to say 'I choose to do something' too but I would not rule out the possibility of 'choose' taking on a gerund like what we said about 'welcome'.

How about this example:

I love to sing so I choose singing as my career.
I love to dance so I choose dancing as my career.
 

TheParser

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Parser
Is that a polite way of saying something is not correct? :-D

Put it this way, I would normally prefer to say 'I choose to do something' too but I would not rule out the possibility of 'choose' taking on a gerund like what we said about 'welcome'.

How about this example:

I love to sing so I choose singing as my career.
I love to dance so I choose dancing as my career.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Tedtmc.

(1) When I said that it did not sound horrible, I really meant it. It does

not sound horrible -- at least, to me. But the rules say it is not "correct."

(2) Hopefully, the in-house language experts will give you a professional

answer, but I am happy to comment on your question.

(a) I may be wrong, but I believe there is a big difference between

I choose going to the pub

and

I choose singing.

With 100% respect, I believe that the -ing may be the problem. As I tried

earlier to explain, a gerund still has verb qualities. In fact, another poster

also mentioned this matter in an excellent post.

In "I choose going to the pub," you are using a real gerund, because you

say " to the pub," which is a prepositional phrase that modifies the verb

"going." And the experts tell us that we may not use a gerund after verb

"choose."

In "I choose singing as my career," you are using an -ing word only

as a noun. In other words, that sentence really means:

I choose [the profession of] singing as my career.

I know that I did not explain it very well. Maybe one of the teachers

will help me.

***** Thank you *****:)

P.S. I thought that you would like to know that Mesdames Celce-Murcia

and Larsen-Freeman based their view on work done by one Professor

Bolinger. It seems that the good professor studied many verbs and he

discovered that OFTEN (NOT always) a verb took only the infinitive if it

expresses something "hypothetical, future, unfulfilled." The authors

specified such verbs as: want/expect/hope/decide/refuse/plan/ -- and

our favorite: CHOOSE. They did not list the many other verbs that also

take only the infinitive.
 

kfredson

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I have found this conversation to be most stimulating. Thank you to you all. I believe that we are really speaking about a "gerund phrase" here. In my experience, students often have difficulty when they confuse it with a "present participle phrase" (not that anyone has done this here.) This web page gives some good examples of how the same phrase might be employed differently in different situations.
 

TheParser

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I have found this conversation to be most stimulating. Thank you to you all. I believe that we are really speaking about a "gerund phrase" here. In my experience, students often have difficulty when they confuse it with a "present participle phrase" (not that anyone has done this here.) This web page gives some good examples of how the same phrase might be employed differently in different situations.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Kfredson.

(1) Welcome back to the family. Your absence very much worried me.

(2) Thanks for the link.:)
 
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