[Grammar] Somewhat. something.

[Mannysteps]

Hello, all,



I am somewhat confused. Having checked my dictionaries, they all agree that "somewhat" is a synonym of "something". The following example is taken from The American Heritage Dictionary:


"The news was somewhat of a surprise."


Meaning:


"The news was something of a surprise."


[FONT=&quot]However, I was told that it is not correct to say:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“The speaker is somewhat of a patronizing character.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And that I should say:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“The speaker is something of a patronizing character.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Could anyone throw some light on this, please? I’d be most grateful.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]M.[/FONT]

 

[shroob]

Hello, all,



I am somewhat confused. Having checked my dictionaries, they all agree that "somewhat" is a synonym of "something". The following example is taken from The American Heritage Dictionary:


"The news was somewhat of a surprise."


Meaning:


"The news was something of a surprise."


[FONT=&quot]However, I was told that it is not correct to say:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“The speaker is somewhat of a patronizing character.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And that I should say:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“The speaker is something of a patronizing character.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Could anyone throw some light on this, please? I’d be most grateful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]M.[/FONT]

Not a teacher only a native.

As a native I can see nothing wrong with, 'The speaker is somewhat of a patronizing character'. However, I would sooner say, 'The speaker is a rather patronizing character'.

 

[philo2009]

In BrE 'somewhat', despite its origins, functions only as an adverb (e.g somewhat better), with 'something' as the only standard pronominal form.

 

[Mannysteps]

In BrE 'somewhat', despite its origins, functions only as an adverb (e.g somewhat better), with 'something' as the only standard pronominal form.

Quite. As far as BrE goes. In E not quite so.

M.

 

[bhaisahab]

Quite. As far as BrE goes. In E not quite so.

M.

Where is "E"?

 

[5jj]

Where is "E"?

I dunno. E was ere a minnit ago.

 

[birdeen's call]

Opinons on "somewhat of" seem to vary. On the internet, I've found people considering it anything from an error to a more natural version of "something of".

 

[Mannysteps]

I didn't think the point I was making was so difficult to get. I thought it quite apparent. However, here goes the explanation for those who missed it:

"Quite. As far as BrE goes. In E not quite so."

BrE - British English
E - English without tags.

Maybe it will clear any confusion and exchanges like the following:

- Where is BrE?
- I dunno. BrE was ere a minnit ago.

M.

 

[emsr2d2]

I didn't think the point I was making was so difficult to get. I thought it quite apparent. However, here goes the explanation for those who missed it:

"Quite. As far as BrE goes. In E not quite so."

BrE - British English
E - English without tags.

Maybe it will clear any confusion and exchanges like the following:

- Where is BrE?
- I dunno. BrE was ere a minnit ago.

M.

I fear there is something of a sense of humour failure occurring.

 

[Mannysteps]

I did think the same about previous posts between some of the subscribers, but I took it as a probable show of British humor and that if they had found it funny they'd find the second version funny too. I didn't. Just trying to please...

M.

 

[5jj]

I fear there is something of a sense of humour failure occurring.

Or somewhat of a sense of humour failure

?

 

[Mannysteps]

Or somewhat of a sense of humour failure?

That's a matter of choice, isn't it? Both are correct, though.

 

[5jj]

That's a matter of choice, isn't? Both are correct, though.

I don't want to start the whole thing up again (honestly!), but I do have to say that it is not exactly 'correct' for many speakers of BrE.

It may be fine for speakers of some other dialects, but learners who are going to use English in the UK need to know that this will be one of the things that sounds a bit 'off'.

It will not, I must add, cause any problems in communication. It is similar to using the past simple, AmE style, in situations when most of us speakers of BrE would use the present perfect. We understand without any problem; but it jars slightly for some of us.

I am not trying to claim any superiority for BrE. One of the delights of my recent visit to our former colonies was the amusement my Briticisms provided for some of the people I met .

 

[Mannysteps]

A forum is to promote discussion. With that all is said. I understand your point about going to Britain, but not all do and there's nothing wrong with having a broader view of the language. Dialects are dialects and I am yet to bring them into discussion here. That is not the objective of this site and I fully understand that. So I've limited my topics to English without tags without claiming any superiority of one version over another, as I sincerely believe all the subscribers do.

M.

 

[emsr2d2]

I claim no superiority either but all the learners have to bear in mind that each individual respondent will use the knowledge of their own particular form of English.

If someone posts a construction which is simply not used in BrE, for example, and the BrE-speaking respondent is not aware that it's commonly used in AmE, then the BrE respondent is likely to say that the construction/grammar is incorrect.

 

[AlexAD]

If someone posts a construction which is simply not used in BrE, for example, and the BrE-speaking respondent is not aware that it's commonly used in AmE, then the BrE respondent is likely to say that the construction/grammar is incorrect.

Absolutely! Even some of the British teachers did. I was an eyewitness

 

[Mannysteps]

Quite, emsr2d2. So promoting such debate not only is healthy as it provides those that look into the forum with a sense of the English diversity that I so much appreciate. I would like to hear more opinions from Canadians and Australians, for instance, because if there's no consensus, the likelyhood of the common language breaking into dialects can not be prevented.

 

[Fishman]

Hi I went to ESL class, imo

somewhat = general
something = specific


"The man is somewhat of a very great coolie" general
"The man is something of a very great coolie" specific (Edit add: not only specific but very sexy)

Like

"I'm" a great coolie
"I am" a great coolie.

 

[5jj]

All I tried to do in post #13 was to suggest that to state baldly, of the constructions we are discussing, "Both are correct" is not , in itself correct.

I would equally argue that to state baldly that one of them (it doesn't matter which) is incorrect is also not, in itself, correct.

It is not possible to sum the situation up in three, four or five words. The situation appears to be that both of these are accepted as correct in some native-speaking regions; only one of them is generally accepted in other native-speaking regions.

 

[5jj]

I would like to hear more opinions from Canadians and Australians, for instance, because if there's no consensus, the likelyhood of the common language breaking into dialects can not be prevented.

The common language, if ever there was one, long ago split into dialects. Had it not been for Britain's dominant role in the world for many years, America's later dominant role for many years, radio, the cinema, television, and the internet, the dialects might have become different languages.

It is probable, in my opinion, that this will not happen. I suspect that speakers of BrE and of AmE understand each other better today than they did 80 or 90 years ago.

However, there are still differences, most of them not too serious, between the dialects. We don't have to have consensus. If expression X is 'good English' in Scotland, a little odd in England, 'incorrect' in Boston, Mass. and unknown in Australia, then that is just the way it is. It does not help to suggest that bcause the expression is 'correct' in one dialect it must be accepted as correct in the others. Similarly, it would be pointless to suggest that if an expression is 'incorrect' in one dialect it must be rejected in all the others.