Who/whom

[Lucas [V.D.]]

I checked previous posts as well as this article - although I get the explanation and the overall rationale behind, I still struggle a bit with the below sentences:

1 Choose who to pay
2 Be careful who you pay

If I am paying someone, shouldn't this be:

1 I'm doing the action, I choose to pay him/whether or not I want to pay him, hence whom and not who? Similar rationale if it was he has to chose who(m) to pay
2 I have to be careful, I need to be careful and decide whether or not I want to pay him, hence I'd have to use whom and not who?

I came across both sentences while I was using an online banking app and they're both driving me mad :-?

 

[SoothingDave]

Yes, both sentences should use "whom." However, here's something that is not a very big secret: Most native speakers never use "whom," except for some set phrases.

 

[emsr2d2]

Grammatically, you're correct. However, so few native speakers use "whom" these days that most companies choose not to use it too. It can make customers feel that the company is being high-brow. They prefer to use the sort of language their customers do, in order to create a connection.

(Either that or the person who put the text on the app didn't know it should be "whom".)

Cross-posted with SoothingDave

 

[Lucas [V.D.]]

Just for the sake of clarity, another example of a casual conversation on this

A: I want to talk to him
B: Who?
A: You know exactly who!

Strictly talking, if the 3rd sentence should go with whom (I want to talk to 'him'), should the 2nd follow the same rule? Or maybe the right premise is - the second sentence in itself is wrong, as it should be to whom? but nowadays no one does it anymore, especially verbally?

 

[GoesStation]

This is a natural conversation. The speakers are following the rules of contemporary spoken English. "Whom" and "who" are both used as object pronouns. "Who" is preferred except when it immediately follows a preposition. It's often used even then, but many if not most speakers prefer "whom".

 

[Tarheel]

Two things. One, the word whom is falling out of fashion. (If you don't use it almost nobody will notice.) Two, the expression is strictly speaking.

 

[bubbha]

The word "whom" is often found in set phrases like "To whom it may concern".

 

[Rover_KE]

... and 'For Whom the Bell Tolls'.

 

[GoesStation]

The word "whom" is often found in set phrases like "To whom it may concern".

... and 'For Whom the Bell Tolls'.

… in both of which "whom" immediately follows a preposition and would therefore often be the choice of contemporary speakers regardless.

 

[probus]

The phrase "for whom the bell tolls" was created by John Donne in 1623 in his Meditations Upon Emergent Occasions. The word whom was much more commonly used then. In the 20th century Hemingway liked the phrase so much he borrowed it as the title of one of his novels. That made it very famous.

Donne:

No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. Therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

 

[Phaedrus]

The word "whom" is often found in set phrases like "To whom it may concern".

Interestingly, the grammatical need for "whom" in "To whom it may concern" has nothing to do with "to."

"Whom" functions as the direct object of "concern" within the clause "whom it may concern."

It is that entire clause that is the object of the preposition "to," in which "whom" is idiomatically substituted for "whomever." Compare:

To whomever it may concern:
To whoever is in charge:
To whoever wrote that article:
To whomever we may have offended:
To whomever we may be responding to:

In the last example, "to" is used twice, and neither "to" can be omitted. "Whomever" is the object of the second "to," not the "to" that precedes "whomever."

 

[TheParser]

I came across both sentences while I was using an online banking app and they're both driving me mad :-?

NOT A TEACHER

If you ever write a formal paper at the university, for example, you may wish to use "whom" in accordance with the traditional rules.

I have noticed that some well-educated people always follow the rule when speaking or writing on formal occasions, lest people mistakenly think that they do not know the rule.